Datalogged the car Here are my files

[Lordgufi]

now back on topic... this is the time i wish i had the pro race software... iwould just flaten each table one by one untill i got the rese\ult i wanted the screw with that sea\nsor untill it was corrected the right way

 

[orange395w]

(Analog to Digital) just cause your A/F reads digital number that is easy to read, doesn't mean you can get an accurate A/F from tables given in live link..

REGULAR O2'S CANNOT READ AN ACCURATE A/F RATIO. #'S ARE BASED OFF OF VOLTAGES GIVEN BY THE O2'S.

I'm off to bed. You guys have fun with you're 16.5* timing. The F'in Shelby probably has more timing than that.

Good-nite Everyone!

 

[wickedstangs]

REGULAR O2'S CANNOT READ AN ACCURATE A/F RATIO. #'S ARE BASED OFF OF VOLTAGES GIVEN BY THE O2'S.

I'm off to bed. You guys have fun with you're 16.5* timing. The F'in Shelby probably has more timing than that.

Good-nite Everyone!

:rofl: what do you think the wideband does? they made a special 02 sensor that is different than a regular 02 sensor? something ainkiller: around here....

 

[ears]

alright,,,, so forgive my ignorance,,,, but is this a problem with the car, or the tune??

and what exactly is the differance between total timing, and static timing?? i would like to learn somethin from this aswell

 

[orange395w]

:rofl: what do you think the wideband does? they made a special 02 sensor that is different than a regular 02 sensor? something ainkiller: around here....

Yes. A wideband is a more complex sensor. Stock o2's are generic. Hints the extra cost of
widebands.

alright,,,, so forgive my ignorance,,,, but is this a problem with the car, or the tune??

and what exactly is the differance between total timing, and static timing?? i would like to learn somethin from this aswell

Static timing is base timing. Total timing is the total of the base and the advance the computer puts in.

 

[Lordgufi]

static timing is the timing that is set mechanically and total timing would be mechanical timing + timing advance. however the 4.6's use a trigger wheel with 36 teeth and 1 missing tooth. there is no set mechanical advance built in.

... but a wide band IS different than a narrow band... but i think i get the argument.
Narrowband oxygen sensors are extremely inprecise. They can't tell the computer the exact air/fuel ratio like wideband oxygen sensors. Technically narrowband oxygen sensors produce an exponential voltage signal, whereas wideband oxygen sensors produce a linear current signal. When the air/fuel ratio is perfectly balanced, a narrowband O2 sensor produces a signal of about 0.5 volts (500 millivolts). When the fuel mixture goes rich, even just a little bit, the O2 sensor's voltage output shoots up quickly to its maximum output of close to 0.9 volts. Conversely, when the fuel mixture goes lean, the sensor's output voltage drops to 0.1 volts.

Why is that important you may ask? because when tuning by a narrow band your going to get the perfect balance at stoich but thats about all your gonna be able to precicly measure. if you want to attempt to run lean even 2% fuel out of the mix will end up in a way lean looking gauge

 

[wickedstangs]

Gufi that 16.5* timing is reading from the ECU and does not count for distributor / static timing.

 

[Lordgufi]

4.6 doesn't have a dist. we have a reluctor wheel with no mechanically set timing advance

 

[wickedstangs]

Love discussions like this.... Everyone gets heated on the debate and you learn something new everyday....

Time to invest in a timing adjuster

 

[Foxman]

yes you do... look at your balancer.. there is a reason it has a pointer that says 10btdc.. the 16.5 you are seeing is with the base 10 degrees added, that the cars computer has programmed in... when your looking at your timing table with the tuner your looking at the advance timing file... your running 26 degrees timing which is still a to low... should be in the low 30's at least!

eec iv computers dont give a **** about base timing (89-95 mustangs)... they just add 16 degrees to what ever you set your base timing to...

 

[Foxman]

i can see why as a tuner he lift the timing at 26 degrees though... if ever driving up a steep grad or get a case of bad 91 at your local gas station you wont have to worry to much about non audible ping

 

[wickedstangs]

Gufi when you installed your cams did you degree them?

Aftermarket camshafts are a very popular and extensive modification for the 4.6L SOHC and DOHC engines. Often times people tend to install the camshafts without taking the proper time to degree the cams and just “connect the dots.” While this method did work on older pushrod engines, the 4.6L OHC engine has the distinct problem of machining tolerances of the cam sprockets from the factory. Due to these tolerances, your engine can have a 2-6* difference between banks, and can rob a considerable amount of horsepower from your engine as each bank is fighting the other. You need to consider as well, that many aftermarket camshafts are ground with an advance in the cam itself and cause problems such as piston to valve contact. Taking the time to properly setup the engine is vital to making the most power you can, no matter what camshafts are used.

 

[Lordgufi]

might be although it should be in the tune. those timing adjusters play havoc with the ecu such as giving upward of 50 degree's of advance during normal driving

before i do something like that i need more information on whats taking timing away that way i can check to see if have a sensor thats wacked out imma check the TPS today

 

[Foxman]

REGULAR O2'S CANNOT READ AN ACCURATE A/F RATIO. #'S ARE BASED OFF OF VOLTAGES GIVEN BY THE O2'S.

I'm off to bed. You guys have fun with you're 16.5* timing. The F'in Shelby probably has more timing than that.

Good-nite Everyone!

correct... regular o2 sensors can not swtich fast enough... narrow band o2's (oem) are what i would call lazy... compared to a wideband o2

narmal o2 sensor perduces voltage from .01 to 1.0vs and wideband has a wide range voltage then that

 

[Foxman]

might be although it should be in the tune. those timing adjusters play havoc with the ecu

before i do something like that i need more information on whats taking timing away that way i can check to see if have a sensor thats wacked out imma check the TPS today

how do you know timing is being taken away? do you kno what dante set you max advance at?

your car doesnt have a knock sensor for pulling timing...

 

[ears]

4.6 doesn't have a dist. we have a reluctor wheel with no mechanically set timing advance

you just love to use big words dont you!!!! :gay:

 

[Lordgufi]

how do you know timing is being taken away? do you kno what dante set you max advance at?

your car doesnt have a knock sensor for pulling timing...

its set for 27 stock he didn't change the table

 

[Foxman]

might be although it should be in the tune. those timing adjusters play havoc with the ecu

before i do something like that i need more information on whats taking timing away that way i can check to see if have a sensor thats wacked out imma check the TPS today

how do you know timing is being taken away? do you kno what dante set you max advance at?

your car doesnt have a knock sensor for pulling timing...

 

[Mustangcwo]

Now that we have settled all the garbage out of the disposal, let me drop in a chunk. FOXMAN is correct. Your tune is set as a daily driver and not a drag strip. If you want a race tune for 91 octane, you'll have to aquire one. If you advance your timing to it's limit, or close, your asking for non-audible pinging during certain driving conditions that will shorten the life of your engine. The tune you have is for a daily driver!

 

[Lordgufi]

found some info

Something i guess I at some point missed. i was told to log spark source which tells you what table the ecu is giving its timing advance from. most tuners use borderline spark.

which is SPARK_SOURCE 2. SO my guess currently from what i'm being told from another tune is that he set my timing on that table for 18 deg