Project Orange395w Cam swap

[orange395w]

Let me start by saying that I never claim to know everything and God knows I've made my share of mistakes over the years with my cars. :flute: The thing that separates me from some critics on here is the fact that I learn from the mistakes that I've made and they have made me a better mechanic. Now I just want to say :thefinger: to one person in particular and you know who you are.

Now.......... There are a few reasons for the cam swap, but first and foremost is that I believed that I was having valve float after seeing my dyno graph a few weeks ago. I know my car and I get info from real racers & mechanics who do this stuff for a living! Not ones who bench race and believe everything they read on the corral or even at times make up their own theories. :idea:

The 2nd reason for the cam swap is obvious..............MORE POWER!!!!!!! Switching to a solid roller cam that is specifically designed for my engine and my engine only. Not one that is a comp cams regrind (FTI) that fits a wide range of cubic inch engines and a guestimate on where it will make power.

With that said first I come to you with pictures of todays work and then I will post some facts and results in black and white. I started this morning @ 9AM and had the engine on the stand at 11:30. I then checked seat pressure of my vales. Each cylinder is brought to TDC on the compression stroke, checked and logged.

Next engine disassembly began because for the open pressure (max lift for spring) testing the valve springs must be off of the head. The tester will tell pressures at a specific height per the spring/head manufacturer. In this case Edelbrock.

Specs for Vic Jr Heads are as follows: Seat pressure =145lbs @ 1.9" installed height, Open pressure = 380lbs @ 1.3"

CHECKING SEAT PRESSURE

 

[orange395w]

HEADS WERE DISASSEMBLED AND SPRINGS MARKED

CHECKING OPEN PRESSURE

Now for the results of the testing. You don't have to know exactly what is going on with what I have done here, but your simple math from 3rd grade will be helpful.

A general rule of thumb is once a valve spring has lost 20lbs of pressure it's time for a spring change. Some people use shims because they are cheap, but that is just ghetto rigging the set up.

Remember that the specs on new Edelbrock vic jr valve springs are:

Seat pressure = 145lbs
Open pressure = 380lbs

FTI cam card recommended a seat pressure of - 130-140

Here are the results

 

[orange395w]

Cam istall pics will be coming as parts arrive. This will be very tedious work ahead, but once everything is set up properly and TUNED it is going to be very exciting. My hope would be that this car can represent the club in a large event this year, but time will tell. Pinks is coming back to Barona. Hopefully this time I will be ready.

 

[orange395w]

Here ya go....................

Billet Timing Chain

Comp Cams Link-Bar Solid Roller Lifters

Comp-Cams Valve Springs ( these things are STOUT!)

Race Coil (other coil not designed for sustaining high rpm...........this one is )

 

[orange395w]

For anyone who knows a little bit about this stuff I just want to compare the old springs vs the new springs and you will see why I say they are stout!

(Old Springs) = Edelbrock Victor Jr Valve springs

Installed height = 1.9"

Seat pressure (pressure in lbs at the installed height) = 145lbs

Open height (Max height spring should compress at max lift of cam. Cam at max lift should ideally be as close to this as possible without going over) = 1.3"

Open pressure (pressure in lbs @ 1.3" (spring compressed) = 380lbs




(New Springs) = Comp Cams 919-16's

Installed height = 1.95"
Seat Pressure = 194lbs !!!
Open height = 1.25"
Open Pressure = 579lbs !!!!!!!!


I can't wait to get this thing back together!

 

[orange395w]

Well I'm in Jacksonville Fl right now, so it is at a stand still till I get home on Wednesday. The cam will be there on tuesday. Cam guy sent me the cam card though!!

Gross lift Int.= .683
Gross lift Exh.= .672
Lobe sep= 108*
Duration@.50 Int. = .247
Duration@.50 Exh. = .261

Recommended stall 4300-4800
peak tq = 4200
peak hp = 5800
shift point = 6300
max usable rpm = 6800

Can't wait to get home!

 

[orange395w]

Well, after returning from Florida and battling strep throat yesterday I began installing the new cam today. Sorry for the lack of photos, but I have to have my mind right to do this and I didn't want to worry about stopping to take pics and forgetting something.

So First I pulled the old cam out and installed the new one. I then installed the cam thrust plate. The next step is to install the Comp Cams Billet timing set. To do so I had to find TDC on the #1 piston. I did that with a dial indicator. Once #1 was @ TDC I installed the timing set and torqued the cam sprocket bolt.

After cam sprocket bolt is torqued it is now time to check camshaft endplay. Cam manufacturer stated that ".004 - .007 would be mint". My endplay measured @ .0045! Perfecto!! Things are going to smooth.

Next per cam manufacturers instructions is to install the timing cover with just a couple bolts and then slide on the harmonic balancer. That way I can set up my timing pointer to true TDC on the balancer.

Well, my new Romac balancer would not go on, so I had to stop there for today. I tried tapping it on with a 2lb plastic dead blow and also tried pressing it on with the crank bolt. Both were a no go. I've never had this problem so I'm doing some research right now to find out what I need to do. I'm thinking that the inside of the balancer will need to be machined slightly. I will keep you posted.

 

[orange395w]

Here are a couple pics of the balancer and timing pointer installed. They will eventually come back off before final assembly. This is part of the (TDC method) cam degreeing procedure.

New tool for checking lobe lift. The one with the ball is for a roller lifter. The flat one is obviously if you are using flat tappets. You insert one of those into the proper end and the dial indicator in the other. Then the tool gets placed in the lifter hole. Rotate the crankshaft and read the lobe lift and make sure it matches what's on the cam card.

 

[orange395w]

Hopefully this clears things up.


Installing a camshaft ground by Camshaft Innovations using the “Lift at TDC” method. You will NOT need a degree wheel. A piston stop and a dial indicator is all that you will need.

1. Install the camshaft. Start by aligning the dots.
2. Make sure the crank gear is set to zero.
3. Use your timing chain cover. Just 2 or 3 bolts to hold it in place.
4. Slide your harmonic balancer on.
5. Install your timing pointer. If it is a stock pointer, grind the lower bevel flat.
6. Now you’ll need your piston stop.
7. Using your piston stop, identify where TDC is with YOUR pointer and YOUR balancer.
8. Adjust the pointer accordingly.
9. Remove the piston stop at this time.
10. Install 1 intake lifter and 1 exhaust lifter.
11. Get the dial indicator out and set it up on #1 INTAKE lifter.
12. Turn the engine over in direction of rotation.
13. When the EXHAUST lifter just starts to come up, STOP!
14. Zero the dial indicator out at this time. You are now on the heel or basecircle of the intake lobe.
15. Turn the engine in direction of rotation.
16. When you get to TDC, STOP!
17. You are at TDC when YOUR pointer is directly on the TDC mark on YOUR balancer. (Providing you set TDC properly!)
18. Record the lift that is on the dial indicator.
19. How close is it to the “Lift at TDC” supplied by Camshaft Innovations on your cam card?
20. If you need MORE lift, then ADVANCE the camshaft.
21. If you need LESS lift, then RETARD the camshaft.
22. For every 1* at TDC you are off, that is .0075” (+/-).
23. Remove the balancer and the timing chain cover.
24. Advance or retard the camshaft accordingly.
25. Repeat the above steps as needed.

 

[orange395w]

Now, the cam card states that my "lift @ TDC" should be .1121"

well I set everything up again today and came up with a measurement of .1085" which is -.0036" short. In order to see if I could get closer to the .1121" I advanced the cam 2* and rechecked everything again. This time I came up with a lift of .1160" which is over by +.0039".

I consulted with Jay Allen (cam manufacturer) owner of camshaft innovations. He recommended that I run the 2* advanced for a couple of reasons. The first one being that the car is N/A and doesn't have high compression. The second is that the converter is tight and isn't going to stall at his recommended "4300rpm".

Ultimately the advance will put me closer to what 0* should have been.

Tomorrow I will recheck PTV clearance and figure out how much I will be able to mill the heads.

Note: I got the pn# off of one of my pistons today and looked it up. As it turns out the pistons have a -22cc dish vice the -19.5cc dish I thought they were. What this means is that all along I was thinking that my compression ratio was 9.73:1, but it was actually 9.55:1

I will be using a .041" head gasket this time around vice the .060" that I was using. I will also be milling the heads to get down to at least 58cc chambers vice the 60cc that they are now. Those 2 moves should put me right at 10:1.

 

[orange395w]

Well I checked PTV clearance today and here are the results. I had (.111" Exh / .132" Int.) Add in the .020" valve lash and that should put me at (.131"exh / .152" Int.) I already emailed Jay allen to get his recommendation on how much to mill the heads. I'm guessing .015"-.020". If that is the case I will be close to 10.5:1 compression when it's all said and done.

Pics were taken with a camcorder since my camera took a dump a few days ago, so sorry for the poor quality.

1. First step is to put the piston at TDC. Next I clayed the piston with modeling clay from michael's. You must fill in the valve reliefs.

2. Next step I put on my .041" Fel-pro head gasket and torqued down the cylinder head to spec. After the head is bolted down (soft valve springs already in place) put an exh lifter and an intake lifter in. Now you rotate the engine in its normal rotation (clockwise) and watch the exh. lifter. As soon as you see it start to rise STOP! you are now ready to install the pushrod and rocker on the intake lifter. Since pushrod length is unknown at the moment you just eye ball the length with an adjustable checker until it looks like the roller tip is in the center of the valve. Lock down the rocker at zero lash. Now you are ready to rotate the engine over until the intake lifter goes to full open and begins to close. Now watch the intake lifter as it'c coming up. When it's almost all of the way closed STOP! You are now ready to repeat the steps on the exhaust side.

3. Once you have completed both sides you are ready to unbolt the head and check the clay. You should have something very sharp like a razor blade and cut the clay in sections. Be very careful when you pull the clay up because if you distort it your measurement will be off! You must check with calipers in various locations on the clay trying to find the smallest clearance. For most applications you are looking for at least .080" Intake and .100" on the exhaust.

If you are asking yourself why the exhaust needs more clearance it's because the exhaust valve will grow or expand more because it will be hotter.

 

[Mustangcwo]

More people are reading this then you think. I just dont have much input, but I'm a learning. I run from working heads and building lower ends. I just dont trust myself yet. One of these days, when I get a project car, I'll be able to take more chances and have a little more fun building cars. Keep this thread rolling, it gives guys like me a chance to try some day.

 

[orange395w]

Once again sorry for the picture quality, but I had to send my camera in to get repaired. These are taken with the camcorder again. Let me just say that these are the finest RR's I've ever seen. I'm not just saying that because they are mine either. It's a shame that they get covered up. They should make clear valve covers so you can see nice stuff like this in motion. Now that's an idea!! Clear valve covers, Hmmm.

 

[orange395w]

Oh yeah, Heads are ready to be picked up. I paid an extra $25 to have the CC volume measured. I will pick them up tomorrow after work. I will know the exact compression ratio by the time I get home.

 

[orange395w]

Update: Kind of a bummer, but I'll get over it. Well as it turns out.......3yrs ago when I bought my Vic Jr heads they were advertised as being 60cc heads. Come to find out that my heads must have sat on the shelf at Brothers for a while because they were actually the older version that was 64cc!

What this means is that all this time I was thinking that I had 9.5:1 compression, It Was actually only 9.3:1. Anyway, after milling the heads .020" It brought the heads to 59cc.

The changing of the head gasket from .060" to .041" and milling the heads from 64cc to 59cc will get me to 10.2:1. Almost 1 full compression point higher. Total performance told me you can see as much as 40-50HP from a half of a point.

It should feel like 100 shot of NOS has been added and that's not even figuring the cam and valvetrain into the equation yet.

 

[orange395w]

A little progress tonight. Torqued heads down, installed lifters and measured for pushrod length. Just ordered up the pushrods and rocker stud girdle.

 

[orange395w]

Made a little more progress today. I pulled the balancer and installed the timing cover gasket. Then reinstalled the balancer and toqued it down.

Next I ran into a problem with the oil pan. The new Moroso didn't fit over my oil pan studs. The holes on the oil pan are just a hair off. I will have to clearance them before I install it.

Next I wanted to check clearance on the oil pan to pick up tube. Since the oil pan wouldn't fit I pulled the studs on one side of the block, so I could get the oil pan to sit flat. Once I saw that the oil pan went all the way down I pulled it off and put a piece of tape over the screen on the pick up tube. Then I put 2 pieces of clay diagonal from each other onto the pick up tube screen. Next I put the pan back on and seated it all the way down. I then pulled the pan and mic'ed the clay. came out to .280" (9/32). I was looking for 3/16 - 3/8 according to the Moroso instructions, so I'm good.

 

[sdsubzero4]

Dang Bobby....That thing is starting to look awesome. Better have something good put on your underbody for the pictures when you lift the wheels off at start.

Awesome, Dude!!!!

 

[orange395w]

Dang Bobby....That thing is starting to look awesome. Better have something good put on your underbody for the pictures when you lift the wheels off at start.

Awesome, Dude!!!!

Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[Gibs]

I'm waiting on the pushrods and rocker girdles that I ordered. They should be here tuesday or wednesday. That means I should be able to dial in the valvetrain next weekend.

Bobby, not being a smartass as this is an actual question.....

How are yo going to dial in the valvetrain? I have read about it and stuff, but have never had to mess with it so I dont know how to. Just wondering what way you do it. Thanks.


Gib