Loss of Members

[spdpilot]

I just searched and found some of the threads about Orange and Tommy, because I noticed their absence at a recent event . So I did a search to find out why. So excuse my late entry into this subject.

I am going to stay out of specifics of this subject for the most part.

Good or bad, I got to post this. All I can say is my experience here with trying to be involved with WS. And being in North County certainly plays a big part in this opinion. Here is what I think. And it DOES apply to this situation.

This isn't any ordinary Club from my experiences. Which is both good and bad. Most clubs are more "generic" and less personal. Which is good, because more people feel comfortable and they GROW. But is bad, because there isn't as much personal commitment to its success and it lacks the warm feeling.

This club is VERY personal with most of you. TOO PERSONAL in my opinion. To the point you think it is all about YOU. The passion for the club runs VERY deep. The reason is, there are about 15-20 of you who communicate daily, see each other all the time, call each other etc. You are more like a family. THIS IS exactly what is happening here with the threads I have read about Tommy and Orange. When core people leave, it is like a train wreck around here. Very dramatic and it deeply effects the club.

For the rest of us sitting on the fringe of this club we come into the club and leave the club. We are sometimes acknowledged, but rarely missed if we leave. Always welcome to come visit the family, but never really being in the family. UNLESS, you go ALL the way in and join that inner circle of people having daily contact.

Half the time, I don't know what is going on here, because I am not in daily contact with you guys. Calling etc. So much is communicated outside the forum. Some of you try to bridge this gap. Subzero, Mustangcwo, Tommy, Phil, Emilio, and one or two others.

But these threads with Tommy and Orange to the rest of us looks really bad. I would bet that most of the core people would look at us like crazy people if I said, Most of us fringe members don't have a clue what is going on here. And really, it is just personal crap being aired out in public that means very little to club overall. It is destructive and it drives people away from the club.

You guys may not have noticed, but I have. The club isn’t growing. It may seem like it is. But things like this drive people away, then more people join so you see new faces. So it seems like it is growing. I am seeing great members leaving. Orange and Tommy leaving (not completely, but to a large degree) is bad. And from my perspective, it was for stupid reasons and WS family fighting.

I am not a core member here, so I can say these things without being treated any differently then I am now. But I am telling you, there are about 20-30 people coming and going from this club every month that go un-noticed. If you want to keep the membership with a family core of about 20 of you, that is great. I have been to events where some people have showed up 2-3 times and no one knows who they are or cares to find out. If you truly want the club to grow, which a lot of us would like to see, this club needs to communicate outside of the core people better and this kind of public airing of internal fighting should stop. We don’t want to hear it.

I personally hope that Tommy and Orange stay involved with the club. This comes as a request from the rest of us "other" members. We appreciate everything you have done and want your involvement.

And I don't want anyone to take this as a personal attack. It is just feedback from a different perspective.

 

[blackstallion06]

Well said Glen

 

[Red]

Very well said. I agree with you also Glen.

 

[wickedstangs]

Yes, for the past several months, there had been way too much drama and negativity happening way too often on the website. Majority of the time couldn’t even understand where it was coming from. Nobody has the time to deal with that and 100% agree no reason for all that mess on the website. It got to the point where you just have to say no more and move on.

This club has created many close friendships, much more than just acquaintances at a club meet. And, we hope it continues to do that. Some people like to get really involved, others do not. It is the board members and a few others that keep things together and moving forward. A big thanks to all of you! Never like losing members, but it happens and will continue to happen for a variety of reasons.

The club’s intention is to never make members feel disconnected from the group. Don’t want anyone to feel like an outsider looking in. We are one group, and whether you come out to every single event, or only have time for 1-2 out of the year, you are still a member and are always welcome. Again, for a while there, things got ridiculously out of hand, but no more feeding into that type of drama on the website. There are no hard feelings here against anyone, just want to focus on why this club was created in the first place ~ enjoyment of cars we all share the love for and good company.

 

[Fighting Sailor]

Very well thought out post, you might be right on most points.. However, I dont think Tommy and Orange are a loss per se, They have started a new forum with a primary focus on racing. I belong to many Forums with this one as my favorite due to the friends I have made here (including Tommy and Orange)... We do have a core of people, but I wouldn't call it exclusive. We are extreemly open and diverse. The fact that this core of people appear to always be calling the shots is due to the fact that we are simply more active than others. I have been with the club for little over a year and have made my place in the club by being very active within the club. Membership in this club doesn't require dues, or event participation... It has always been a "log on to the website and your in" situation. If the mood strikes you to become very active Great, if you are more reticent, thats ok too.
One point you make that I completely agree with is the fact that some people bring thier personal beefs to the site and this can be very damaging. This is a problem experienced on every forum I visit and cannot be avoided. I will say that this forum, of all that I visit, has the lowest instance of that sort of behavior.
Yes I do have a passion for this club, it is a very unique group, family friendly and very diverse. These are qualities very hard to find and I am proud to be a part of it.

 

[yosemiddysam]

I myself am on a few sites as well. I have seen sites taken down by "Drama". This club by far has the least amount out of all of them. It does show it's ugly face every now and then but for the most part the mods/board members get the issue resolved. I miss both of them being around here just as much as everyone else and would like to see them more often but that is up to them. Members come and go.......that is just a fact of life. Not everyone is the perfect fit.......

 

[StarAngel]

Very well said to all of you above, and agree.

 

[GLDNPNY]

If the mood strikes you to become very active Great, if you are more reticent, thats ok too.

Something really scary about a quartermaster correctly using reticent in a sentence. What's next? Cogent? :biggrin1:

 

[spdpilot]

Great posts..... I hope this comes out right, but.... I think everyone does feel welcome at WS, but there is a difference between feeling welcome and feeling "involved". They want something to do. Most people I think want to become involved and join a Mustang Club to do just that. but they don't to have feel like they need to be a close friend to someone to become involved. So they attend a few events, maybe post once or twice on the forum. They see all this drama, then move on.

It may be the very fact that, as Fighting Sailor said, they join the forum, they are in. Here is something to consider. Is WS a Club? or is it just a few close friends with Mustangs who invite you to their party?

Families argue and fight. But organizatons handle things in a less emotional way. Organizations, (ie car clubs) try to find common ground to fit most personalities. Families don't really care, as friends come and go. But Clubs do this through rules, dues, levels of management, and communication. Once you put yourself out there as a Car Club, you are telling people, we are no longer just a bunch of good friends (who like all the same things) and like Mustangs, but we are now opening our doors to everyone in a professional organized way. Through our oganization, you can now get involved without the emotional investment of having to become someones friend. But if there is a core group still operating independently within the bigger organization, it isn't really what it might seem. And people will come and go, not really feeling like they belonged to anything.

Just something else to think about. Maybe WS should form a legal charter. Require dues. Have rankings. Members must sponsor new members. Etc. Forums are everywhere. Is WS a Forum for Mustang people and a Club to a few? Or is it a Club first, and the forum is the method of communication.

Food for thought.

 

[Mustangcwo]

I'll put this as gentlle as possible so that all can understand. THIS IS NOT A CAR CLUB, THIS IS A FAMILY.

I agree that loosing Tommy, Orange and a few other members does not help the club. However, Orange is an original member that has been with the club for over 10 years. His choice to move on was personal and his choice. He was not a new guy or someone who did not influence the decision making within the club. He was very active and assisted us in making many decisions. As a matter of fact, Mustangs Vs. The World was Orange's event. He put us together with the track owners and got us off to a great start. But, I accept his choices and many members left with him. This is not the first time this has happened and wont be the last. However, unlike most clubs, they are always welcome here.

As for being an outsider, it takes only a few buttons to join the club and time and dedication to become a family member. But, that time and dedication is up to the individual. I joined three years ago and spent many weekends at Miramar installing parts, weekends at the track and several months assisting in building the clubs first race car. It was my decision to get involved and get to know the members. I became their friends and part of their family, because they learned to trust me and I enjoyed their company.

In short, this club is not going to change the way we do things. If members want to hang out on the fringe and just race, go to events and some shows that is fine. If we choose to have parties, fight events and dinner together...the family will do that too. As far as making all the decisions and directing the club's direction, that is up to the board (I'm no longer a member). Everyone is welcome to provide inputs and all inputs are discussed (I was a board member). However, when push comes to shove this is Emilio's Club and he has the final decision and I support him 100% (at least I try).

 

[HisPony]

That was very well said cwo!!

 

[sdsubzero4]

Just to reiterate what others before me has already said. Orange and Tommy decided to start their own site and I will openly acknowledge I am also a member of. But WS is still my primary "club." Orange and Tommy have their ideas and want to express it in their own arena and that is perfectly fine. They are STILL members of WS and they are always welcome. They still log on here, but they spend most of their time developing their own site. Orange is one of the original member and Tommy has supported WS from the first day he joined us. Donating his time, materials, and energy to help this club grow. However, the difference between this club and other clubs are, we don't force any of our members to come to events if they don't want to, we don't have a "minimum" participation requirement, we don't require dues, but if anyone would like to donate, great, if not, that's fine,too. We encourage all members to become active and join in the "inner circle" as Spdpilot put it. But we are not going to force anyone to do anything they don't feel comfortable in. I joined a little over a year ago and I decided to be more involved. But in recent time, I am forced to give up on that involvement due to some personal problems I'm dealing with and just don't have the time or give the require effort to complete task, but will still help out when I can. But it is inevitable in any organizations, clubs, etc, that certain core of people gets closer together then the rest. That is not to say that core people are better then others, its just that spending a lot of time together working on projects makes it happens. We want others to come in and take over and take the reign and continue the move forward. However, it seems its alway the same people that jumps in. So, I am saying it here. If you would like to be more involve with what is happening with this club, Please, come forward and get involved. You do not need to be a gearhead, or mechanically inclined or what have you. You just need to be willing to put in the effort and help move things forward. If you are new, introduce yourself to us. We don't know everybody and for me personally will take a few times before I remember your name (because I am bad at remembering names). Give us your opinions. Don't get upset if we don't agree or go with your ideas. It may not be implemented this time, but what you contribute may be use later in the future. Just keep contributing. And the last thing, yes, this club is more like a family. We all have relatives we don't like, relatives we like more then others, and certain relatives we are closer to. Family members argue, sometimes over the stupidist things. That is how it is here, too. But in the end, we will support each other, whether we have met in person or only online. That is what makes this "club" great, is the support we give each other.

 

[Fighting Sailor]

I think everyone does feel welcome at WS, but there is a difference between feeling welcome and feeling "involved". They want something to do. Most people I think want to become involved and join a Mustang Club to do just that.

We could use a few more volunteers for Mustangs Vs. the World... Everyones invited (as always)

 

[StarAngel]

I completely agree with you Sub. I have tried to be involved as when Tac was here. But my health hasn't allowed me to do all the things I would like. It would be great for others to take the reigns. And I too have a problem with names, so for those of you who don't get to participate but once in a while, please come up get our attention (for some have ADD, ROFL) and introduce yourselves and get more involved (if you would like). It always takes a while to get to know others, but please never feel we are ignoring you, after all, most of us are simply gearheads at heart!

 

[spdpilot]

I'll put this as gentlle as possible so that all can understand. THIS IS NOT A CAR CLUB, THIS IS A FAMILY.

I agree that loosing Tommy, Orange and a few other members does not help the club. However, Orange is an original member that has been with the club for over 10 years. His choice to move on was personal and his choice. He was not a new guy or someone who did not influence the decision making within the club. He was very active and assisted us in making many decisions. As a matter of fact, Mustangs Vs. The World was Orange's event. He put us together with the track owners and got us off to a great start. But, I accept his choices and many members left with him. This is not the first time this has happened and wont be the last. However, unlike most clubs, they are always welcome here.

As for being an outsider, it takes only a few buttons to join the club and time and dedication to become a family member. But, that time and dedication is up to the individual. I joined three years ago and spent many weekends at Miramar installing parts, weekends at the track and several months assisting in building the clubs first race car. It was my decision to get involved and get to know the members. I became their friends and part of their family, because they learned to trust me and I enjoyed their company.

In short, this club is not going to change the way we do things. If members want to hang out on the fringe and just race, go to events and some shows that is fine. If we choose to have parties, fight events and dinner together...the family will do that too. As far as making all the decisions and directing the club's direction, that is up to the board (I'm no longer a member). Everyone is welcome to provide inputs and all inputs are discussed (I was a board member). However, when push comes to shove this is Emilio's Club and he has the final decision and I support him 100% (at least I try).

Wow!! I am sorry, I started this thread to say a few things on the minds of not just myself, but others I have talked too. I really didn't do this because I wanted to start trouble.

But Seriously, can I summarize what you just wrote.

1) This is not a Car Club, but a Family
2) You had to devote all your time to become part of the Family
3) But if you don't devote all your time, you can still be on the fringe, which is fine, but not part the Family
4) You keep saying "Club", but you said this is NOT a Car Club
5) And to prove the point it isn't a Club, you do much more then just cars...ie Fight Night, etc
6) Decisions in "Club" direction is up to the board
7) Ultimately the Emilio has final decision, which makes the board meaningless.

And the tone suggests, we have no right for thinking this family would be anything different or would EVER be anything different. Like maybe a Car Club.

Why didn't you just say. "Yeah, what you wrote in your first post is correct. We don't hide the fact we a small group of friends that hang out and all have mustangs. Devote some time to us and you can be involved also if we like you. If you don't devote time, then don't expect to be involved with us and take it for what it is. No we are not a club although it may seem like it, we just enjoy promoting the Wicked Stangs Theme with Emilio. And we have no desire to change."

I am glad you made your post. And seriously, I have no problem with what you said. And I have no issue with this being what it is. I am happy all of this is clear to all of us on the "fringe". I don't have time to become friends in the way you mention and although I think this group has a lot of potential in becoming a great Car Club, which is why posted, I am happy to just be able to roll with you guys from time to time.

I am also glad you brought clarification for many of us who have wondered about why things are the way they are. Just say it how it is. Thats what I do.

Thanks for Listening.... I should have figured it out on my own.

 

[spdpilot]

Just to reiterate what others before me has already said. Orange and Tommy decided to start their own site and I will openly acknowledge I am also a member of. But WS is still my primary "club." Orange and Tommy have their ideas and want to express it in their own arena and that is perfectly fine. They are STILL members of WS and they are always welcome. They still log on here, but they spend most of their time developing their own site. Orange is one of the original member and Tommy has supported WS from the first day he joined us. Donating his time, materials, and energy to help this club grow. However, the difference between this club and other clubs are, we don't force any of our members to come to events if they don't want to, we don't have a "minimum" participation requirement, we don't require dues, but if anyone would like to donate, great, if not, that's fine,too. We encourage all members to become active and join in the "inner circle" as Spdpilot put it. But we are not going to force anyone to do anything they don't feel comfortable in. I joined a little over a year ago and I decided to be more involved. But in recent time, I am forced to give up on that involvement due to some personal problems I'm dealing with and just don't have the time or give the require effort to complete task, but will still help out when I can. But it is inevitable in any organizations, clubs, etc, that certain core of people gets closer together then the rest. That is not to say that core people are better then others, its just that spending a lot of time together working on projects makes it happens. We want others to come in and take over and take the reign and continue the move forward. However, it seems its alway the same people that jumps in. So, I am saying it here. If you would like to be more involve with what is happening with this club, Please, come forward and get involved. You do not need to be a gearhead, or mechanically inclined or what have you. You just need to be willing to put in the effort and help move things forward. If you are new, introduce yourself to us. We don't know everybody and for me personally will take a few times before I remember your name (because I am bad at remembering names). Give us your opinions. Don't get upset if we don't agree or go with your ideas. It may not be implemented this time, but what you contribute may be use later in the future. Just keep contributing. And the last thing, yes, this club is more like a family. We all have relatives we don't like, relatives we like more then others, and certain relatives we are closer to. Family members argue, sometimes over the stupidist things. That is how it is here, too. But in the end, we will support each other, whether we have met in person or only online. That is what makes this "club" great, is the support we give each other.

Sub....

You are one of the people that makes WS great. I know your view on things, because you have told me in person. I am not saying any of this to cause trouble OR Drama.... lord knows there is enough of that to go around.

I think there is plenty of room for people to be on the outer circle of things. Like myself. I am perfectly fine. My feelings are not hurt. I will continue to be involved with things where I can.

I just think there is an illusion of being a club. But in reality, it isn't an Illusion at all. CWO said the truth. But when people talk about a "Board" and say "Club" and tell us to promote things and get new Members, you kind get the feeling you are beating your head against the wall when the club isn't acting like a club and there seems to only be the core members who are ultra involved who call themselves Wicked Stangs. All the pieces don't match. You are promoting, but people are coming and going. You are kind of like WTH?

I and some other "members" talk about these things. And I have been scratching my head trying to figure out why the club never really seems to grow and why there is so much drama when an old member leave. Especially since every one is such great people at the core of WS.

Wicked Stangs is a Family. Close friends who do much more then just have Mustangs. And if others want to show up to an event, thats great, they are welcome too.... I get it now!! That is great! I just didn't get the whole, bring more members, have a board to run things, promote, etc etc. That is not what WS is all about, BUT that is what WS says it IS in everything it does. So you can see my confusion. I actually feel pretty stupid about this whole thing now. So I will just leave it alone and let WS be a small group of friends having fun.

If WS ever wants to be a large Car Club, I for one think it can do it.

Like I said, no hard feelings and I still enjoy tagging along.

 

[wickedstangs]

Nope, got it wrong, so I would just like to clarify…. Wicked Stangs is a club, and a tightly knit club. What CWO meant is that this is not ONLY a car club, but also a family, and we say that with pride. The idea of this just being a group of friends who happen to all have mustangs and call ourselves a club is a huge misconception. None of these friendships existed prior to the club’s beginning almost 12 years ago; it was the club that created these friendships.

We enjoy each other’s company, but by no means is it a requirement to become close friends to be on the board. The people on the board are chosen by the ideas they are able to contribute and the time they are able to commit, because to run a club takes a lot of commitment and time, and 1 person cannot do it all. Believe it or not, the board makes the decisions on the direction the club takes. Contrary to what others may think, there’s not much at all my sole opinion dictates. I just would like to make it clear that EVERY member has an opportunity to sit on the board if they are interested.

Yes, there is more than just car events we host, but in our opinion that is just an extra added benefit this club has to offer. There are varying opinions on what makes a club a club, and it is just that ~ an opinion, so nothing to debate about that. This organization was created for enjoyment and recreation, and this is how it will remain. When this club was started, so many of the members were young military guys with no place to call home, but a gray-walled ship. I always opened my door to these guys because I could relate to how lonely it felt to be away from home. I tried to give them that sense of family, so I guess that sense just stuck over the years.

We like hanging out and organizing events for us and others to enjoy. We are not so much concerned about quantity as we are about quality. There have been MANY car club created (too many to even count), but not many have sustained over the years because of the work and dedication it takes to keep it going and the mere lack of involvement. Wicked Stangs is here to stay and will always remain an active car club.

 

[Gibs]

As a member of many forums, I will say that there is far less drama on here and this is a closer group than most others. Most posts on here dont get flamed by everyone all the time. I have to agree with what alot of you have said as far as it being more like family than a club. People move on and new people replace them. I will say I have never seen a private event with this club, all are invited. As far as people showing up at events and not being noticed, did they ever say anything to anyone? I have seen lots of new people over the last few years at meetings, events, and get togethers. None of them were ever outcast to my knowledge....well except Pouya, but he left on his own. There is no inner circle or any of that. There is a group that speaks to each other and comes up with the decisions for the club, that is like any club though....they have their leadership that makes the calls. I think the club is doing well and will continue to thrive as long as we keep getting good members who are all looking for the same thing..........Mustangs, friends, and to learn something. Emilio and board members, keep up the great work. gets better here all the time.

Emilio, I really wish you would get your own Mustang and stop riding Monicas coat tails though. I figured the leader of a Mustang club would own his own mustang....LOL

Spdpilot, care to race that Roush 1 more time before I leave? Will have to be after MVW as I dont return til the 21st.

Gib

 

[Mustangcwo]

I'm not one to hold my tongue and will always tell it like it is; someone has too. If you like it here, enjoy it for what it's worth. This club/family will not change for the individual and is enjoying the current course. Come out, enjoy yourself and become active if you desire. If not, we'll see you around at some of the events and catch up on the times. If you want to start a new club...HAVE FUN, becuase we are already having a blast.

 

[Ford1288]

I really dont understand your point SDPILOT. What would you recommend we change? No offense, but you do alot of complaining. Numerous times about MVTW and I forgot which other subjects. That being said, complaining and constructive criticsm is sometimes a good thing. Just tell us what you think should do different, instead of just rambling on, and we might be able to improve the situation. No hard feelings here either, but I wanted to vent a little. That being said I think wickedstangs is in fact a BIG car club. Clubs from all over SoCal know our name and invite us to events. And we have a good reputation. Any other car clubs throw huge events like MVTW? Dont think so. Do they have a club race car where people can learn how to work on the car and even drive it? Nope. So in conclusion I love this place and think the long time members have yes, made it into a family like environment where everyone can have fun and feel welcome.