O almost forgot,you only hear the most extreme detonation,you cant hear the small stuff that can hurt a motor over time.Thats were plug reading comes into play.The small stuff will rattle the oil ring and leave oil specs on the plug,also you want to read the heat mark across the ground strap of the plug.
-
Hello there guest and welcome to our forum!
To gain full access you must Register. Registration is free and it takes only a few moments to complete.
Already a member? Login here then!
Local Dyno Tuner?
- Thread starter Screamin03
- Start date
- Status
Mach1Marauder
Well-Known Member
Well...........I beg to differ.
I think after being on the dyno for a few thousand runs, I know what's best for my customer to protect their investment. We don't do many "cookie-cutter" combos where it's pretty easy to know most of the parameters beforehand. Even with known combos, when you get to the finalization of the tune, two people are best.
Mach1Marauder
Well-Known Member
When I talk about two people, I'm not talking about one LISTENING to the vehicle, I'm talking about one stationed by the tailpipe WATCHING for detonation or spark blowout. It takes a good eye to know the difference.
Although I've developed my own techneque for listening for detonation and other noises and it works quite well and is very accurate. I just don't like doing it because it's VERY dangerous being by the enginebay.:nonono:
fastsleeper
Why ya treat me like that?
rofl:
your right a cammed ported head 4v with a crusher and bottle is cookie cutter,so is a 540 inch pt98turboed big block chevy that makes well over 1000 hp,or a f1r 347 fox on pump that makes over 700 on just 9psi,or a 900 whp 23 degree headed 406 inch small block chevy on 2 large kits,so cookie cutter.these are just my own cars.And like i said if you can hear it damage is being done,the spark plug tells ALL PERIOD END OF STORY.Im not going to argue about it anymore,you have your ways:rock:I have mine:rock: and ive never hurt a motor from to much timing or lean a/f,ive broken a stock long block 2v thats been on boost for awhile with very high mileage,and it broke after it was tuned 2 years ago cruising on a test drive to the alinment shop.
Good luck to the OP.LAterz
so do you even read the plug?Look for the fuel ring and timing mark?Look for oil specs?If not your doing your customers a injustice.Do you know what to look for?Im not trying to discredit you,but when you say im wrong i want to know what facts you have to base this on,and if you have knowledge outside a wide band and knock sensors.I learned before people really used dynos,i learned at the drag strip and reading spark plugs.
Sorry to the OP i dont want to crap on your thread.
eace:
I love this thread :eat:
Mach1Marauder
Well-Known Member
WOW! REALLY?
Were you drunk posting last night?
Where did I say YOU did cookie cutter projects?
Go back and READ what I said. No need to get all defensive, especially when it was YOU that disputed what I said where some of the qualities to look for in a good shop.
Also, What is your obsession with HEARING detonation? YOU are the one that brought up HEARING detonation FIRST. AFTER you mentioned it, I posted that I developed a LITTLE USED technique for listening for detonation and OTHER noises, but it's only used when other noises are heard during a run to RULE OUT detonation even though there are no signs of detonation by other means
so do you even read the plug?Look for the fuel ring and timing mark?Look for oil specs?If not your doing your customers a injustice.Do you know what to look for?Im not trying to discredit you,but when you say im wrong i want to know what facts you have to base this on,and if you have knowledge outside a wide band and knock sensors.I learned before people really used dynos,i learned at the drag strip and reading spark plugs.
Sorry to the OP i dont want to crap on your thread.
Too late bubba.............you already crapped all over it.:nonono:
You have a different tuning philosophy than I do. I'm very PRO-ACTIVE when tuning. I've made a check list that I go over with customers when they bring a car in for tuning. This is so a tune can be built for their specific application and to stave off any unforeseen problems while on the dyno and to limit as much as possible any additional diagnostic time. If you would have read and COMPREHENDED clearly, you would have noticed that I said that a tail pipe observer is not USUALLY needed until the tune is close to being FINALIZED. The PRO-ACTIVE technique continues during the final runs of tuning by having an observer with a flashlight to call off the run when detonation is noted out the tail pipe and even when spark blowout is note. There are subtle differences between the two when watching the tail pipe and with the well trained eye, it's pretty easy even in turbo applications. By being PRO-ACTIVE in tuning, I stop the run at the first signs of seeing detonation and even pre-ignition. You on the other hand take the REACTIVE approach in this area. YOU check for detonation after it ALREADY occurs in a run by relying on reading a plug AFTER a run. Flame propagation is fairly easy to read in modern fuel injected cars and amateurs can do it once they are shown what to look for. The same goes for detonation or pre-ignition. To the trained and EXPERIENCED dyno operator, Pulling plugs is only a VERIFICATION of detonation. With smoothing reduced to a minimum, you can see it clearly on the dyno chart and you can plainly see it in the datalogged parameters. By being PRO-ACTIVE in tuning, I drastically limit any possible damage to a customers vehicle. This approach has worked quite well for me over the last over 7 years with mine and others modern fuel injected vehicles.
As far as being able to read plugs, I guess you could say I have somewhat of a long and varied experience in reading them away from the dyno. I started doing all the maintenance on my father's old flathead '49 ford when I was 10 yrs old. I could get that old flathead to idle so smooth, you could set a nickle on the oilbath air cleaner and run so well that my Pop would get surprised when he'd look down at the speedo and be doing 80mph plus and not even realize it. My first real performance reading of plugs was with my '78 F150 that I ordered new in '77. It stayed stock for roughly two weeks before the first rounds of mods began and about 3 months before the engine and tranny were pulled for REAL mods. It was one of the first 514s built my best friends Dad in Dallas. It had D0OE CJ heads, custom ground cam, modded interceptor intake manifold and topped off with a 1050 Dominator. It made well over 500 RWHP on a FORD dyno when we took it to the Woodward Avenue street cruise in Detroit. That truck made me and my friends Dad a LOT of money before I went in the Navy.
Please read what I write here when giving tech advise. I'm not here to make money or show everyone my junk is bigger than yours or any of the sort. I really don't think you want to go down that particular path.
I was invited here and I'm here to help these guys in anyway possible. If I can arm them with info so that they can better choose a shop to tune their pride and joy, then that's what will happen. Maybe you need to carefully reread a few things and rethink a few things.
To the OP. I wish I knew someone in your area that I'd feel comfortable in recommending. I just don't know people on the west coast that well. I hope the additional information in this thread will help you in your search. Like I said before, If I can help answer any questions, feel free to PM me.
I could careless about your check list,that was never brought up,you said you have a second guy listen for detonation.I said if you can hear it its already causing damage.
You have no idea how to read a plug,and that is the very most important part of tuning.A wideband is a nice tool to get you close,the plug tells all.Continue your methods,i will continue mine.
Wow from what i hear your a blow hard know it all.HAve a good day.
You have no idea how to read a plug,and that is the very most important part of tuning.A wideband is a nice tool to get you close,the plug tells all.Continue your methods,i will continue mine.
Wow from what i hear your a blow hard know it all.HAve a good day.
Mach1Marauder
Well-Known Member
SHOW ME WHERE I said "I have a second guy listen for detonation!" BEFORE YOU said I did! :nonono:
Blow hard? ................Nice way to conduct business! Don't even try to start with personal attacks that you can't say face to face.:nonono:
Where in the hell do you get off saying I don't know how to read a damn spark plug? I was probably reading spark plugs before you were an itch in you dad's nutts.
Reading spark plugs on most every project YOU will see is just plain silly after every run on the dyno. If you utilized all the current tools available to you in the data logging software of SCT, FAST, BS3, Motec, Accel DFI, EFI LIVE.........ect..........along with just plain reading the dyno readout, You'd KNOW EXACTLY what was going on with the engine, WITH NO DOUBT.
Stangguy
Well-Known Member
opcorn: wow this is some good popcorn
Mach1Marauder
Well-Known Member
DON'T BOGART IT!:hello:
Stangguy
Well-Known Member
Enough for all! I'm just here to watch :madgrin: i'm keeping my two cents to myself
sdsubzero4
Spring Valley, CA
I think this thread had ran its course and everyone know what is everyone's feeling it is on this subject. There's no more "productive" value to be added so it will now be closed.
- Status